Re: Comments on V1.1 - Future of VOTable

From: Arnold Rots <arots-at-head.cfa.harvard.edu>
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:33:33 -0400 (EDT)


Now that this side of the Atlantic has woken up and surveyed (bleary-eyed) the wisdom that has been dispensed from the other side while we were blissfully asleep, we might a well join in :-)

I'll repeat my old mantra (slightly disagreeing with what Clive said earlier): FITS defined the syntax of the metadata but failed to define the semantics - and that's turned out to have been a considerable problem. HEASARC/OGIP tried to fix that with a set of conventions, but such efforts were very much limited to sub-communities: high energy, optical, and radio each have their own set of idiosyncratic conventions; and that's troublesome for a VO.

To expand on the reversibility that Mark quoted: So, defining an XML-based metadata standard that is purposely semantic in nature is a very sensible thing to do and XML is well-suited for that (better than FITS). On the other hand, I have yet to see a standard for bulk binary data transport that is significantly better than FITS. Hence the wrapping concept - which I think is actually a very sensible, but also accpetable, way of transporting data and information. Extract the metadata from the FITS headers (requiring software that understands the peculiar dialect of a particular FITS file), put it in a universally understandable XML document (for the sake of argument, let's say a VOTable), and send it with the FITS file containing the data - that seems like a perfectly acceptable and practical solution (at least to me).

And, of course, if you can translate a FITS dialect to a VOTable, you can try to do the reverse and feed the new file into your existing FITS-based analysis package - or you can use something more modern.

In summary:
- The data transport mechanism of FITS ain't broken -> don't fix it. - The metadata semantics in FITS is a problem -> replace it by something better (VOTable or whatever).

Anyway, that's the assumption I have been working from. Cheers,

Mark Taylor wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Apr 2004, martin hill wrote:
>
> > While I appreciate that VOTable can be used to wrap FITS, this is (I hope) a
> > temporary measure while we sort out our data models and representations. We
> > should recognise it as such and put future effort into producing suitable
> > solutions, not in overloading VOTable to represent all data formats. FITS files
> > too have limited structures.
>
> I don't see it as a temporary measure. VOTable is not supposed to
> represent all data formats, FITS is a special case. From sec 2.3 of
> the VOTable document:
>
> "the transformation of FITS to VOTable is meant to be reversible"
>
> The kind of data (though not metadata) which can be held in a VOTable
> is by design compatible with the FITS binary table format, so that
> requiring the possible storage of VOTable bulk data using a FITS
> binary table does not introduce any additional limitations (put another
> way, VOTable explicitly accepts the limitations of FITS binary tables
> as far as pure data storage streams go).
>
> Mark
>
> --
> Mark Taylor Starlink Programmer Physics, Bristol University, UK
> m.b.taylor@bris.ac.uk +44-117-928-8776 http://www.star.bris.ac.uk/~mbt/
>


Arnold H. Rots                                Chandra X-ray Science Center
Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory                tel:  +1 617 496 7701
60 Garden Street, MS 67                              fax:  +1 617 495 7356
Cambridge, MA 02138                             arots-at-head.cfa.harvard.edu
USA                                     http://hea-www.harvard.edu/~arots/
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Received on 2004-04-14Z15:34:37